Patreon’s CEO on Poaching Substack Stars — and Why Meta Feeds Are Headed for Full AI
SCOOP: Jack Conte reveals the three ‘human-focused’ rules shaping his new algorithm, and the consumer shift as subscription fatigue sets in
I cover the creator economy. I wrote about Netflix’s missteps as it moves to recruit top podcasters, interviewed two Gen Z media founders about how to win young audiences and explored how Dancing With the Stars seduced Gen Z. I’m natalie@theankler.com
Before I get into today’s dishy interview with Patreon CEO Jack Conte, I have an invitation for Angelenos! Please join me this Sat., Dec. 6 for a conversation with two-time Olympian and gold medalist Jordan Chiles and Sidelined 2 star Noah Beck at the new Meta Lab store in West Hollywood — we’ll talk about how athletes and creators navigate the growing intersection between sports and entertainment. Space is limited, but we’ll have a few VIP seats for Like & Subscribe readers — request an invitation below and email me if you’re planning to attend so we can save a spot for you!
Okay, now for today’s column…
This past weekend, as I was traveling home to L.A. after spending the holiday with family (did you catch Hot Ones’ Sean Evans during the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade?), my iPhone buzzed with an alert that my screentime activity had averaged less than five hours per day over the previous week. Not too bad, I thought, and proceeded to open Instagram. Then I remembered the interview I’d just recorded with Patreon CEO Jack Conte, and I shoved my phone back in my pocket.
Conte is the rare tech executive who actually advocates for spending less time on your phone. And he practices what he preaches, limiting his own Instagram usage to just 10 minutes each day. “I’ve had to wean myself off these platforms,” he says. “I know what they’re trying to do to my brain, and I still have to set a timer for myself.”
I called him up last week after watching his recent New York Times Opinion video: Over seven highly choreographed minutes — featuring the work of a number of Patreon creators — he argues that our brains are being melted by the algorithm and breaks down his vision for a healthier internet “grounded in creativity and human connection, a more human algorithm.”
Conte, 41, co-founded Patreon in 2013 (alongside Sam Yam, now the company’s president and CTO) to give creators a place to monetize their work directly through fan payments like subscriptions. The company — which was valued at $4 billion when it last raised funding in 2021 — now works with more than 300,000 creatives from musicians to podcasters and says it has paid out more than $10 billion in total.
But the internet has evolved a lot in the 12 years since. Conte believes the TikTok-ification of social media has de-prioritized the value of following or subscribing, making it harder than ever for creators to actually reach their fans. Algorithms that prioritize driving immediate (yet fleeting) gratification are making us addicted to our phones, and yet it’s harder than ever for creators to build businesses from their work.
“You just are a cog in the attention machine,” he says. “Creators find it very difficult to control their discovery experiences, to have some agency in what’s recommended. And fans don’t have agency around what gets shown to them.”
He’s approaching these problems not just as an executive, but also as a creator himself. Together with his wife Nataly Dawn, he performs in the band Pomplamoose, which has 2 million YouTube subscribers and 1.2 million followers on Spotify. He also plays in punk band Scary Pockets (1 million YouTube subscribers) and hosts the show Digital Spaghetti (215,000 subscribers) about the creative process.
Conte’s motives aren’t purely altruistic. Patreon recently announced it is making some big changes to its platform, including redesigning its homepage to recommend more new content to users and allowing creators to publish short, Twitter-like posts called Quips. These products might look like the very thing he’s criticizing in the Times video, but he tells me they’re being built very differently.
They’re being introduced as Patreon faces serious competition from platforms like Substack and Beehiiv (and vice versa). Seven years ago, Patreon acquired subscription membership platform Memberful, which helps creators like Molly Baz and Rhett & Link build subscription-powered websites. Memberful has also been a draw for media brands like Punchbowl News and Vox, which has been using that platform for several years and separately announced last month that it’s now on Patreon.
Now, a number of writers are decamping from Substack for Patreon including cultural critic Anne Helen Petersen, an early Substack adopter whose newsletter Culture Study regularly topped that platform’s charts. “I didn’t want to be on a platform that had been steadily — and not so stealthily — enshittified,” she wrote to her subscribers, explaining that Patreon reached out to her about joining its platform and showed her “newsletter functionality to rival (if not improve upon) Substack’s.” Adweek has reported that Patreon has offered some Substack writers financial incentives, including a revenue guarantee.
The move clearly riled up Substack co-founder Hamish McKenzie.
In our conversation, lightly edited below, Conte reveals his pitch to writers looking to leave Substack. He also shares his recipe for making algorithms better for our brains, an explanation for why Patreon is introducing more algorithmic features and his prediction about what will happen when AI takes over Meta’s feeds (hint: It’s not looking good for creators).
Read on for my interview with Patreon co-founder and CEO Jack Conte, which gets into:
The three “human-focused” rules behind Patreon’s new algorithm — revealed here for the first time
Why big Substack writers are defecting and the pitch Conte is making behind the scenes
How Quips is designed to help creators “get the fuck off Instagram”
The payment feature growing 3x faster than subscriptions — and what that shift signals
How Patreon plans to handle ads and brand money without corrupting its core
What creators say isn’t working on Patreon — and what Conte is doing about it